Excerpts from transcript of House Foreign Operations Subcommittee hearing, February 13, 2002

Excerpts from transcript of House Foreign Operations Subcommittee hearing, February 13, 2002

SEC POWELL: ....Moving on in our budget request for foreign operations, we're requesting $731 million for the multi-year counter-drug initiative in Colombia and other Andean countries that are the source of the cocaine sold on America's streets. ACI, assistant to Andean governments, will support drug eradication, interdiction, economic development, and development of government institutions. In addition, the Colombians will be able to (stand up?) a second counter-drug brigade. Assisting efforts to destroy local coca crops and processing labs there, doing it there, increases the effectiveness of U.S. law enforcement here.

In addition to this counter-drug effort, we are requesting $98 million in FMF to help the Colombian government protect the vital CLC oil pipeline from the same terrorist organizations that are involved in illicit drugs, the FARC and the ELN. Their attacks on the pipeline shut it down 240 days in 2001, costing Colombia revenue, causing serious environmental damage, and depriving us of a source of petroleum. This money will help train and equip two brigades of the Colombian armed forces to protect the pipeline.

REP. KOLBE: Mr. Secretary, let me start with two questions that I have about the -- our struggle with Colombia and the Andean region there, one a general question for you. You know how much difficulty we had last year with the president's request -- we didn't get as much, but we struggled in conference to get as much as we could from that, and I argued with my colleagues that we needed more time to see how well it was working. I don't know how much more time we are going to get in order to show that we are getting some progress there. And my question to you was in the months ahead -- by the time we get down to the nitty-gritty of negotiating the number here -- do you think we are going to be able to show adequate progress in what is happening in that region in the war on drugs there, particularly in Colombia and its struggle with the FARC and the paramilitaries?

And let me throw my second question out at the same time, if I may, and it has to do more specifically with the request for the funds to defend the oil pipeline. You mentioned it in your statement and also in your words here. I think this raises a number of interesting questions. Have we decided to move beyond a role in support of Colombian counternarcotics efforts to direct involvement in government-supported counterinsurgency activities? That's a major policy change, if that's the case, and I think you need to tell us about that. The precedent this request sets for military assistance raises questions about what we do with other oil pipelines in the world that are very, very vulnerable. Do we respond in a similar way to those? I think it raises questions about an oil pipeline that is half-owned by United States corporation Occidental Petroleum. And, specifically, how are the funds going to be used? It says procure helicopters, vehicles, other material to provide training. But is there going to be U.S. forces on the ground in the region of the pipeline? Are we going to provide active support there? Let me throw all of that to you for a comment.

SEC. POWELL: (Inaudible) -- I think by the time you get to your serious deliberations later this year, we will be able to make a persuasive case to you that we are starting to see progress with respect to eradication, and I hope we will be able to demonstrate more progress with respect to crop substitution. We will have gone through an election in Colombia by that time and we will have a better sense of the commitment of the new president. But as I look at the political landscape there, I think you will find that whoever does win the election will be committed to counter-narcotics efforts in a way that will make our efforts even more important. So, I think we'll be able to demonstrate the case.

With respect to the pipeline, what makes this pipeline unique is that it is such a major source of income, and without this pipeline operating something close to its capacity, it is not just a military problem, it is a serious problem with respect to the economy of the country. And it is for that reason that we thought a $98 million investment in Colombian brigades to help protect this pipeline is a wise one and a prudent one, in that it also affects and supports our counter-narcotics efforts in many ways because it assists the government in funding their own efforts through the revenues derived from the pipeline.

I don't -- I don't have the military plan in front of me of how we're actually going to do this and how we would support the

Colombians or their military plan, but I think I can say safely that we don't intend for U.S. forces to be down there protecting or guarding this pipeline. But it's the introduction of equipment, helicopters, training of the brigades, and that kind of an effort rather than U.S. forces running the security operations for the pipeline.

REP. KOLBE: So, do you think this is a sort of departure from our policy in the past by -- are we getting into counter-insurgency?

SEC. POWELL: I think it's a close line. I don't think it's quite into counter-insurgency to the extent that they're not using this investment and this new capability to go running into the jungles looking for the insurgents, but essentially to protect the unique facility.

REP. KOLBE: So a passive rather than an active --

SEC. POWELL: Yes sir.

....

REP. CALLAHAN: And lastly, Mr. Chairman, let me just touch briefly on Colombia and to tell you that I handled, Mr. Secretary, the legislation that contributed to $1.3 billion towards Colombia's efforts to eliminate drugs. It's my understanding that very few of the contributing nations have come up with what they pledged, nor has Colombia, and that while I certainly will listen to you and respect your decision to give Colombia even more money, my attitude at this point, Mr. Secretary, is to work with you during the next coming months to rescind some of the $1.3 billion that we gave them in our initial legislation, because I am not at all satisfied with the direction that that war is taking there. But I'll be happy to work with you. But I actually intend at some point during the process to rescind part of the $1.3 billion that we appropriated in a bill with my name on it.

SEC. POWELL: I look forward to working with you on it, Mr. Callahan, before you do that. My undersecretary for political affairs, Marc Grossman, has just spent several days in Colombia and has come back with a great deal of information. I want to sit and spend more time with Undersecretary Grossman. And then we would like to work with you; come out and talk to you.
.....

REP. KIRKPATRICK: Let me ask you lastly on the Andean initiative. This is now probably the third budget cycle I've been sitting in where we have given billions of dollars to first Colombia, and now to that region of the world, to stop the drug trade. I have yet to see any kind of report on what's happened. Where has our money gone? Is there a written report on it? Colombia first and now the other countries that are -- we know that they move from one place to the other as the enforcement is increase. I haven't seen it in my district. The demand is still high, drugs still flow across America -- almost at will. Too many people are being addicted. What's happening with the money that we spend? Do you have a report? I mean, the other contributing countries, as the former chairman said, have not been contributing. We've put our money up. They haven't put their money up. And many of my constituents still can't get treatment on demand from drugs that come from South America.

SEC. POWELL: To go back to Mr. Callahan and then to your point, the other contributing countries have not done what they were supposed to do, and I am disappointed in that as well, and we are working with them, especially the Europeans, to live up to the commitments they made. I have dealt with the drug issue in many ways over the years, growing up in a neighborhood that was contaminated by drugs, and then trying as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to see what we could do using the armed forces to interdict it. But it begins with demand. As long as that demand is high here in the United States, someone is going to try to supply it, if there's a profit in it -- and there's always a profit in it.

REP. KIRKPATRICK: That's why we have to have treatment.

SEC. POWELL: We need - I couldn't agree with you more. Treatment, education of young people, mentoring of young people --

REP. KIRKPATRICK: All of that.

SEC. POWELL: -- and I dedicated a part of my life to that as well -- is what keeps the demand down and gets rid of the demand.

REP. KIRKPATRICK: Absolutely.

SEC. POWELL: Once the demand is there, by the time they are 16, some 16-year-old in Colombia or somewhere else is going to try to meet that demand and make money for himself and for his family. And so it's both demand, supply and interdiction.

I think with respect to the ACI program, we are working hard on the supply part. We have had some success with the eradication efforts, and I think you'll see over time as the money that was appropriated last year really starts to kick in, I think you'll see our success with respect to eradication increase --

REP. KIRKPATRICK: Is there a document that we can refer to that --

SEC. POWELL: I will give you all the documentation I have. And, on top of that, I will be more than pleased to send Assistant Secretary Rand Beers, who runs the program for us, up here to brief you and your staff personally.

REP. KIRKPATRICK: Okay. And show me how the money is being spent?

SEC. POWELL: Yes, ma'am.